Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?
from the Mills College Tuning Digest, 1998
edited, annotated, and appended by Joseph L. Monzo
# 1559
Topic No. 8
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margo Schulter
To:Tuning Digest
Subject: Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?
Hello, there.
Recent Tuning List discussions have focused on making connections between different currents of just intonation and other branches of xenharmonics.
As someone with a special interest in Pythagorean tuning, while I might not have any additional suggestions to contribute in the way of organizational questions, it occurs to me to share a few reflections on the relationship of this xenharmonic approach to others. Curiously, the tuning if sufficiently extended also has an interesting musical linkage in its very ratios with some of these other approaches, of which more shortly.
An interesting feature of Pythagorean tuning is that it seems to serve as a kind of crossroads for four trends in xenharmonics:
(1) Historical tunings. Like characteristic 15th-17th century meantone and 18th-19th century unequal well-temperaments, the Pythagorean tunings of the 13th-15th centuries are associated with a great tradition of polyphonic composition. Understanding this tuning may play a vital role in understanding Gothic harmony, as well as vice versa; the tuning both influences and reflects the sonorous ideal of the period.
(2) Cross-cultural tunings. Pythagorean systems based on pure fifths or fourths, with various modifications, occur in many world musics from China and India to Persia. Scholars such as Ervin Wilson have begun to draw some connections which may lead to a richer understanding of cross-cultural xenharmonics.
(3) Just intonation (JI). Pythagorean tuning is not only a system of just intonation with a very long history, but also an amazingly successful system not only ideally suited to much Gothic music but inviting "Neo-Gothic extensions" approximating intervals in 5-based and 7-based systems.
(4) N-tet and related systems. Like equal temperaments such as 17-tet, Pythagorean tuning tends to have a non-tertian focus quite distinct from "classical" European music of the post-Gothic era. Also, like these systems, it has sometimes been dismissed as "purely mathematical, not musical," or denounced as "intolerably dissonant." Fortunately, the growing recognition promoted by xenharmonicists such as Ivor Darreg that all n-tet's have a potential for beautiful music may lead to a more just appreciation of Pythagorean tuning also.
Now for the musical linkage of
This linkage involves two bridges, the first well known and the second perhaps a bit more obscure -- but obvious once John Chalmers called it to my attention.
These bridges are the regular schisma, and what I term the septimal schisma, which permit extended Pythagorean tunings to emulate intervals of 5-based and 7-based JI systems. While the use of these intervals is, of course, at the discretion of the composer or performer, one application is to supplement the basic 3-based Pythagorean intervals with two new "flavors" of unstable intervals which can serve as diversions or impel directed cadential action toward stable octaves, fifths, and fourths.
The regular schisma of 32805:32768 or about 1.95 cents, as many readers will be aware, is a bridge to a quasi-5-based world. It is the difference between the Pythagorean comma (531441:524288, about 23.46 cents) and the syntonic comma (81:80, about 21.51 cents) which separates a number of basic 3-based intervals from their 5-based counterparts.
Possibly less well known, the septimal schisma of 33554432:33480783 or about 3.80 cents is a bridge to a quasi-7-based world of "superefficient" cadences and third-tone steps. It is the difference between the Pythagorean comma and the septimal comma (64:63, about 27.26 cents) which separates basic Pythagorean intervals from their 7-based counterparts.
All we need to do is to extend Pythagorean tuning far enough, and both schismas extend their welcoming doors into new xenharmonic regions. More specifically, we generate new flavors of intervals either a comma wider or a comma narrower than the usual forms. Here are some key intervals as examples:
5-schisma Regular 3-based 7-schisma (~1.95 cents) (~3.80 cents) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 4ths or 5ths 2 5ths or 4ths 14 4ths or 5ths M2 65536:59049 9:8 4782969:4194304 (180 cents; ~10:9) (204 cents) (227 cents; ~8:7) m7 59049:32768 16:9 8388608:4782969 (1020 cents; ~9:5) (996 cents) (973 cents; ~7:4) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 9 5ths or 4ths 3 4ths or 5ths 15 4ths or 5ths m3 19683:16384 32:27 16777216:14348907 (318 cents; ~6:5) (294 cents) (271 cents; ~7:6) M6 32768:19683 27:16 14348907:8388608 (882 cents; ~5:3) (906 cents) (929 cents; ~12:7) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 8 4ths or 5ths 4 5ths or 4ths 16 5ths or 4ths M3 8192:6561 81:64 43046721:33554432 (384 cents; ~5:4) (408 cents) (431 cents; ~9:7) m6 6561:4096 128:81 67108864:43046721 (816 cents; ~8:5) (792 cents) (769 cents; ~14:9) ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thus it might be said that Pythagorean tuning is not only the mother of many systems but a cousin germane to many more. Also, as this chart suggests, the usual Pythagorean intervals might be viewed as a kind of "middle of the road" between 5-based and 7-based alternatives.
An open question: might an extended Pythagorean tuning with its contrasts of basic 3-based, quasi-5-based, and quasi-7-based intervals in some way have a kinship to the three genera (diatonic, chromatic, enharmonic) or to Guido d'Arezzo's three hexachords (soft, natural, and hard)?
In any case, the septimal schisma and the world of extended Pythagorean tunings it opens may illustrate a common adage of the xenharmonic movement: in exploring all the possibilities which music has to offer, "12 is not enough."
Most respectfully,
Margo Schulter
mschulter@value.net
Here is my Lattice Diagram illustrating the
"schisma bridges" to approximate 5- and 7-Limit ratios
as shown by Schulter in the table above. The 3-Limit ratios with
higher exponents - the "bridges" -- are placed on the
Lattice in the positions of the 5- and 7-Limit ratios
which they approximate, with the 5- and 7-Limit equivalents
indicated.
# 1559
Topic No. 10
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:02:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Hahn Subject: Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?
On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, M. Schulter wrote:
> Possibly less well known, the septimal schisma of 33554432:33480783 or
Oddly enough, I was just poking around in some old tuning list messages
today, and guess what I found:
| Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 08:52:11 -0800
Another interval that might be a candidate for the name "septimal
schisma" is the 2401/2400, about .72 cents. It is the difference
between the 50/49 and the 49/48, both intervals which result fairly
directly from septimal voice-leading.
# 1561
Topic No. 4
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:21:06 +0200
From: Manuel Op de Coul
Subject: Septimal schisma as xenharmonic bridge?
The interval 33554432/33480783 has also been named by Eduardo Sa'bat,
Beta 2. Septimal schisma seems a good name to me.
The bridges from Margo's post are easily found with
Scala. It can take
all the combinations of two intervals and check whether a given
interval (some comma for example) is a sum or difference of them. The
list of interval names intnam.par that is provided can be used for
that. So do:
load intnam.par
show combination 33554432/33480783
In this case, only differences are found:
5120/5103 - 32805/32768
64/63 - 531441/524288
15625/15309 - 34171875/33554432
134217728/129140163 - 28/27
8/7 - 4782969/4194304
16777216/14348907 - 7/6
9/7 - 43046721/33554432
2097152/1594323 - 21/16
32/21 - 1594323/1048576
67108864/43046721 - 14/9
12/7 - 14348907/8388608
8388608/4782969 - 7/4
27/14 - 129140163/67108864
1048576/531441 - 63/32
Manuel Op de Coul
I welcome feedback about this webpage: corrections, improvements, good links.
THE REST OF THIS PAGE IS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION!
commentary by Monzo:
show combination 33554432/33480783 [= 3-147-1]
I have added prime-factor notation of the form
3x5y7z to facilitate calculation.
Lattice diagram of above, by Monzo
P. = Pythagorean
REFERENCES
I welcome feedback about this webpage: corrections, improvements, good links.
> about 3.80 cents is a bridge to a quasi-7-based world of
> "superefficient" cadences and third-tone steps. It is the difference
> between the Pythagorean comma and the septimal comma (64:63, about
> 27.26 cents) which separates basic Pythagorean intervals from their
> 7-based counterparts.
| From: Manuel Op de Coul
| Reply-To: tuning@eartha.mills.edu
| To: manynote@library.wustl.edu
| Subject: Other harmonic 7th comma
|
| Bosanquet has written that 14 fifths downwards (the Pythagorean double
| diminished octave) is very close to the harmonic seventh. Is the
| comma belonging to it, 33554432/33480783 = 2^25 * 3^-14 * 7^-1 =
| 3.8041 cents ever called Bosanquet's comma, does anyone know?
|
| Manuel Op de Coul
--pH
Beta 5 - schisma
septimal comma - Pythagorean comma
great BP diesis - Ampersand's comma
Pythagorean double diminished third - 1/3-tone
septimal whole tone - Pythagorean double augmented prime
Pythagorean double diminished fourth - septimal minor third
septimal major third - Pythagorean double augmented second
Pythagorean double diminished fifth - narrow fourth
wide fifth - Pythagorean double augmented fourth
Pythagorean double diminished seventh - septimal minor sixth
septimal major sixth - Pythagorean double augmented fifth
Pythagorean double diminished octave - harmonic seventh
septimal major seventh - Pythagorean double augmented sixth
Pythagorean diminished ninth - octave - septimal comma
Let me know if you don't understand something.
Beta 5
5120/5103
3-6517-1- schisma
32805/32768
3851
septimal comma
64/63
3-27-1 - Pythagorean comma
531441/524288
312
great BP diesis
15625/15309
3-7567-1 - Ampersand's comma
34171875/33554432
3756
Pythagorean double diminished third
134217728/129140163
3-17 - 1/3-tone
28/27
3-371
septimal whole tone
8/7
7-1 - Pythagorean double augmented prime
4782969/4194304
3x5y7z
Pythagorean double diminished fourth
16777216/14348907
3x5y7z- septimal minor third
7/6
3-171
septimal major third
9/7
327-1 - Pythagorean double augmented second
43046721/33554432
3x5y7z
Pythagorean double diminished fifth
2097152/1594323
3x5y7z - narrow fourth
21/16
3171
wide fifth
32/21
3-17-1 - Pythagorean double augmented fourth
1594323/1048576
3x5y7z
Pythagorean double diminished seventh
67108864/43046721
3x5y7z- septimal minor sixth
14/9
3-271
septimal major sixth
12/7
317-1- Pythagorean double augmented fifth
14348907/8388608
3x5y7z
Pythagorean double diminished octave
8388608/4782969
3x5y7z- harmonic seventh
7/4
3x5y7z
septimal major seventh
27/14
337-1 - Pythagorean double augmented sixth
129140163/67108864
3x5y7z
Pythagorean diminished ninth
1048576/531441
3x5y7z - septimal comma
63/32
3271
+ = augmented
++ = double augmented
- = diminished
-- = double diminished
P. comma
531441/524288
312
|
|
311
|
|
310
|
|
39
|
|
schisma
32805/32768 ------------
3851 38
|
|
37
|
|
36
|
|
35
|
|
34
|
|
33
|
|
32
|
|
31
|
|
septimal comma n0
64/63 |
3-27-1 |
\
\ 3-1
\ |
\ |
--------
3-2
|
|
3-3
|
|
3-4
|
|
Beta 5 |
5120/5103
3-6517-1 3-5
\ |
\ |
\ ----------------------
3-6
|
|
3-7
|
|
3-8
Let me know if you don't understand something.